Hello Mike, I would like to submit an idea to you. Consider using stainles steel mesh as an electrode( it has more surface area than just plain stainless plate) take one piece say 12 inches high by 9 0r 10 feet long. lay it on the table in front of you. Then upon it place a piece of screen for your screen door, it is fiberglass coated with plastic. on top of that place another sheet of stainless mesh, on top of that another layer of plastic coated fiberglass screen material. then roll them all up together. you place this in a 4 inch pvc pipe with a rubber lid hposeclamped on the top and bottom. fill it with electrolite and apply positive charge to one plate and negative to the other. you will find that you have created a capicitor like device which will work with significantly sover voltages. I am in the midst of doing this now myself. let me know how thing work for u. I hope this helps.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Johnston To: H2OPower@topica.com Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 10:10 PM Subject: [energy2000 / energy 21) New experiment Hi All, I wanted to mention an experiment that I did today before I leave for the week. Hope everyone had a nice (lack of) Labor Day. I did this to confirm something that I've been thinking about. It sort of worked but I want to run it a couple more times before I draw any final conclusions about it. However it performed well enough for me to mention it. I re-visited the series cell concept again. I set up 6 one quart cells in series, with stainless electrodes. The electrodes were about 1 1/2" wide and 9" long. They were bent into "U" shapes and inverted so that each electrode was simultaneously the anode of one cell and the cathode of the next. All except for the cathode of the first cell and the anode of the last. I used a strong H2SO4 electrolyte solution. note: consider how a potential difference is transmitted from cell to cell in this setup. First I hooked the cells up to my 12 volt battery charger. This got the current flowing nicely in all cells. Current was only about 2 amps though so I could have reduced the resistance a lot by using larger electrodes but I am short on metal so I had to use the ones that I had available. At the resistance level that I had I wasn't expecting anything spectacular. But it worked and the current was ok so I proceeded to the next stage of the experiment. I switched the power supply to the 6 volt 6 amp setting. Electrolysis was dramatically reduced, of course, but it continued in all cells. That is 6 volts through 6 cells or 1 volt per cell. it measured at between .96 and 1.2 volts per cell between electrodes and 9 volts across the series at .12 amps. Interesting. Remember that the series was pretty resistive for 12 volts. I had one similar series with larger electrodes passing 12 amps before so this was no low resistance series. Also the series I built with the copper cathodes and stainless anodes kept the voltage better but that was totally different. At any rate I then switched the series to a new power supply. I used a 6 volt dry cell battery. Again electrolysis continued in all cells but current was down to .05 amps. I let it run for 2 hours and the current level maintained for that time period. That was what I wanted to see and it worked. I do want to put together some lower resistance cells and try it again though. Then I want to get "fancy" and add in some electronics in parallel with the cells to see how much of the voltage drop that I can eliminate. More on that later. I also re-confirmed what I have dubbed the "coasting effect". That was the observation that electrolysis does not stop the second that power is turned off. It continues for several seconds, diminishing the whole time. There are several reasons for this, one is that the electrodes and the cell in general are acting like capacitor plates/capacitors and two because the charged ions in the solution are still congregated around the electrodes and they help to maintain the potential difference. The first and most obvious way to take advantage of the coasting effect is to use it to allow you to power more cells with the same charge and thusly produce significantly more H2. Since we have at least a half second to a full second before the series starts to lose power in earnest we can take advantage of this effect by switching between several series of cells something like the distributor on a car switches between cylinders/plugs. If you think about a distributor from a car running at only 1000 rpm feeding 6 series of 6 cells that is 16 revolutions per second and so then each series would be "hot" 16 times per second. More than enough for the coasting effect to smooth out the gaps in power supply. What do you gain though? Well, consider that it is the level of current flowing through each cell that determines H2 produced. If we use 10 amps for the above example then one cell would produce 10 amps worth of hydrogen. Six cells in series would produce 10 amps worth of H2 per cell, or 60 amps worth of H2. So 6 series of 6 cells each would produce 60 amps x 6 = 360 amps worth of H2. All from the same electrical charge. In grams of H2 per second it would be: 10 amps= .0000105 x a x 1 or .000105 gm H2/sec 60 amps = .0000105 x 60 x 1 or .00063 gm H2/sec 360 amps = .0000105 x 360 x 1 or .00378 gm H2/sec Per minute: 10a= .063 gm 60a= .0378 gm 360a= .2268 gm Per hour: 10a= .378 gm 60a= 2.268 gm 360a= 13.608 gm Maybe 13.6 gm/hr of H2 doesn't seem that impressive but when you consider that you are only "investing" 12 volts 10 amps from your power source that seems like a pretty good return to me. MJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! 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